Wednesday, October 26, 2005
Frangible .223 Ammo
I've always kept my bedside AR magazine loaded with PMC Green frangible ammo. Not because I'm trying to save mother earth, but I live on the second story and wouldn't want to drop an old lady down the street if the proverbial shit ever hit the fan. I've shot it at the range to make sure it cycles through the rifle alright. It does. No problem. It ain't that accurate, but my place isn't that big.
As many of you may know, Lake City has emptied out all of the XM193 ammo. It disappeared in a matter of months, and I'm stuck with my meager reserve of 6,000 rounds. The Lake City steel points and frangibles are still available, though. Steel points aren't allowed at our range, as they tend to fuck up the steel target silhouettes.
In my brief spell of panic at the thought of Lake City ammo evaporating, I bought several thousand rounds of Lake City frangible. They showed up this week. They are semi-jacketed unlike the PMC which just looks like a bullet made out of granola.
If anyone has any info on the interior ballistics of these rounds, compared to XM193, I'd appreciate hearing from you.
As many of you may know, Lake City has emptied out all of the XM193 ammo. It disappeared in a matter of months, and I'm stuck with my meager reserve of 6,000 rounds. The Lake City steel points and frangibles are still available, though. Steel points aren't allowed at our range, as they tend to fuck up the steel target silhouettes.
In my brief spell of panic at the thought of Lake City ammo evaporating, I bought several thousand rounds of Lake City frangible. They showed up this week. They are semi-jacketed unlike the PMC which just looks like a bullet made out of granola.
If anyone has any info on the interior ballistics of these rounds, compared to XM193, I'd appreciate hearing from you.
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The rounds that PMC uses are probably made by Sinter Fire and are a copper/tin powder that is compressed to make the projectile.
The semi jacked rounds I have not a clue about.
and where is my brass at ya boner...
The semi jacked rounds I have not a clue about.
and where is my brass at ya boner...
# posted by 
: 9:36 AM
: 9:36 AM
a .223 by the bedside? Seems a bit much to simple wheelgunner like me.
When the SHTF, you won't be in your place... not sure the frangilble will matter.
For my after TEOTWAWKI, I am looking at an SKS and 1000 rounds of mil-surp ammo. Not accurate, but effective at medium or close range. And the price is right.
When the SHTF, you won't be in your place... not sure the frangilble will matter.
For my after TEOTWAWKI, I am looking at an SKS and 1000 rounds of mil-surp ammo. Not accurate, but effective at medium or close range. And the price is right.
Brass? What brass?
I forgot you researched this because your gun club is bound by the laws that a pussy government has beset upon you.
When you were researching it, did you find ANY ballistic data? No load manuals ever encompass frangible rounds.
I forgot you researched this because your gun club is bound by the laws that a pussy government has beset upon you.
When you were researching it, did you find ANY ballistic data? No load manuals ever encompass frangible rounds.
Deb,
The shit will hit the fan exactly when you feel most comfortable, like lying in your bed. Despite criticism, the .223 is a round I am adept with out to about four hundred yards. At the same time, it is a great close-quarters round. I want it to stop at the wall, though.
There's where my interest in frangibles springs from.
Regards,
Benjamin
The shit will hit the fan exactly when you feel most comfortable, like lying in your bed. Despite criticism, the .223 is a round I am adept with out to about four hundred yards. At the same time, it is a great close-quarters round. I want it to stop at the wall, though.
There's where my interest in frangibles springs from.
Regards,
Benjamin
Sorry there is no ballistic info on the rounds unless you buy the projectiles and then all you really get is loading data...
You know that Lapua Brass that you brought back from Idaho in the pretty green boxes, along with 200 rounds of Black hills Match...
K
You know that Lapua Brass that you brought back from Idaho in the pretty green boxes, along with 200 rounds of Black hills Match...
K
# posted by : 6:26 PM
: 6:26 PM
Never tried that brand, but have fired ICC 42gr. RTP Frangible; and, American/A-Merc/IMI 42gr. Frangible. Both functioned well in my 7.3" 1:7 twist AR 'pistol' (that I keep on my bed, next to me).
I think you've got a good plan there. :)
Best, and may the SHTF days go well for you & yours,
-Kyrinn
I think you've got a good plan there. :)
Best, and may the SHTF days go well for you & yours,
-Kyrinn
# posted by : 7:12 PM
: 7:12 PM
Both the FBI and the US Army have studied .223 ball ammo extensively (no surprise there...) and they have both determined that at close range (<40 yards) even ball ammo is "frangible" (it won't penetrate wooden structures such as walls). By nature .223 ball ammo is a good choice for close range indoor firefights. You actually get better structure penetration from the .223 if you back off the target 50 yards or more.
If you think about it, this makes sense actually. The .223 is so small, and moving and spinning just so darn fast, that it rips itself apart when it hits just about anything. So indoors it penetrates less than 9mm ball. After about 40 yards it drops velocity, due to air resistance, and then tends to hold together better.
I don't see anything at all wrong with the load you have chosen, I wouldn't presume to tell anyone else what they should use to protect their own life, yet try to be responsible and lower their liability. If that is what you like, then stick with it. But one advantage of .223 ball is that if it ends up going outdoors you still have some range with .223 ball ammo. It works indoors with little penetration and outdoors with more penetration.
The research is out there, just a few minutes with Google will provide the resources. Just something to consider, if you are interested.
As for it being "overkill", I can tell you first hand that it is not. I used to work from home as a programmer, and I tended to work nights since I'm kind of a night owl. The people I worked for didn't care, as long as I turned in code. I lived in a second story apartment building, and knowing about the ballistics of .223 ball, as I described to you, I kept an AR-15 with a full mag in it next to me in my office. The apartment had one narrow corridor that led to the only exit. Anyone coming in through the door would put themselves between me and the exit, with my wife at the back of the apartment asleep in bed.
One night about 3:00 AM someone started screaming outside my door and was beating the door in. He was screaming something like "Let me in! I know Bob is in there, and I'm going to F-ing KILL him!" I looked through the peep hole and it looked like a biker who closely resembled Charlie Manson, and he looked mad as a hornet. He was just about to kick the door in anyway, so I opened the door, which swung in front of my right hand, hiding the AR-15 which I was holding. He took one look at me and screamed an obscenity and shoved me back into the hallway. As he did that the AR-15 SP1 (old school) came straight up and centered 1 inch from his chest. I said "I don't know who you are, or what you want, but there's no "Bob" here, and you just picked the wrong house!" His hands went up, he backed up slowly, and when he got past the door he flew down the stairs taking 3 steps in a single leap. I looked around the doorway and yelled "And don't come back!"
In retrospect, it was likely an attempted home invasion robbery. It's also likely that I not only saved my wife and myself, but also my neighbors, since I doubt he wanted anything to do with the entire apartment complex after that. From the look on his face, he may have even found Jesus and turned from a life of crime! :)
This is a true account of what actually happened, and I can tell you for certain that it definitely worked for me. Your mileage may vary.
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If you think about it, this makes sense actually. The .223 is so small, and moving and spinning just so darn fast, that it rips itself apart when it hits just about anything. So indoors it penetrates less than 9mm ball. After about 40 yards it drops velocity, due to air resistance, and then tends to hold together better.
I don't see anything at all wrong with the load you have chosen, I wouldn't presume to tell anyone else what they should use to protect their own life, yet try to be responsible and lower their liability. If that is what you like, then stick with it. But one advantage of .223 ball is that if it ends up going outdoors you still have some range with .223 ball ammo. It works indoors with little penetration and outdoors with more penetration.
The research is out there, just a few minutes with Google will provide the resources. Just something to consider, if you are interested.
As for it being "overkill", I can tell you first hand that it is not. I used to work from home as a programmer, and I tended to work nights since I'm kind of a night owl. The people I worked for didn't care, as long as I turned in code. I lived in a second story apartment building, and knowing about the ballistics of .223 ball, as I described to you, I kept an AR-15 with a full mag in it next to me in my office. The apartment had one narrow corridor that led to the only exit. Anyone coming in through the door would put themselves between me and the exit, with my wife at the back of the apartment asleep in bed.
One night about 3:00 AM someone started screaming outside my door and was beating the door in. He was screaming something like "Let me in! I know Bob is in there, and I'm going to F-ing KILL him!" I looked through the peep hole and it looked like a biker who closely resembled Charlie Manson, and he looked mad as a hornet. He was just about to kick the door in anyway, so I opened the door, which swung in front of my right hand, hiding the AR-15 which I was holding. He took one look at me and screamed an obscenity and shoved me back into the hallway. As he did that the AR-15 SP1 (old school) came straight up and centered 1 inch from his chest. I said "I don't know who you are, or what you want, but there's no "Bob" here, and you just picked the wrong house!" His hands went up, he backed up slowly, and when he got past the door he flew down the stairs taking 3 steps in a single leap. I looked around the doorway and yelled "And don't come back!"
In retrospect, it was likely an attempted home invasion robbery. It's also likely that I not only saved my wife and myself, but also my neighbors, since I doubt he wanted anything to do with the entire apartment complex after that. From the look on his face, he may have even found Jesus and turned from a life of crime! :)
This is a true account of what actually happened, and I can tell you for certain that it definitely worked for me. Your mileage may vary.
# posted by : 6:43 AM
: 6:43 AM << Home
